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Are u a skillfull player or lucky , a few good comments here.

 
Author the1truemaster
Forums Member
#1 - Posted: 14 Mar 2009 22:09
A hall filled with poker players
Surely these people can't all be feeling lucky?
Poker has been found by a court to be a game of luck as much as skill. Why?

There are plenty of amateur poker players who have entered tournaments on a whim, making it to a high-stakes final and eventually scooping the top prize, beating seemingly huge odds.

A chef and amateur poker player from the Blackpool area, for example, won almost $1m (£567,419) in an online competition in 2005, when his previous top winnings were just £28. And there are many others with similar tales to tell.

But was it pure luck that dealt these card sharps the winning hand, or sheer hands of skill?

The questions over whether winning at poker is down to a cool and calculating mind, or just through being presented a fortunate set of cards by the dealer, has arisen following the trial of Derek Kelly, owner of the Gutshot Club in Clerkenwell in central London.


Poker is a game of skill but I can't think of a game, including poker, where luck doesn't come into it
Roy "The Boy" Brindley
Professional player

Mr Kelly was found guilty of two counts of contravening the Gaming Act, because of the poker games he organised and made money from. The law requires that a licence is needed to host games of chance but not games of skill, like chess.

During his trial Mr Kelly protested that poker is indeed a game that requires skill and does not rely on luck, but jurors disagreed.

Certainly when one examines the rules of poker, with its varying types of games such as draw, stud and community card, and all the different variants, the game can simply seem confusing and highly complex.

It hardly seems a game that could simply be down to luck. But then, when the chips are down, what control is there over getting a strong hand, unintentionally, from the dealer?

A poker player
Luck run out?

Roy "The Boy" Brindley is a professional poker player who has won 20 titles over the past four years and who also commentates and writes about the game.

He believes that although skill is a major factor, the element of chance also plays a role in deciding who wins a game of poker.

"Poker is a game of skill but I can't think of a game, including poker, where luck doesn't come into it. We've all had luck in a game before," he said.

"If every game could be attributed purely to skill the same people would win every week. What game is totally skill?

"Poker is a very skilful game and the same skilful players will win a lot, but not all of the time.

"In motor racing, for example, Michael Schumacher was the most skilful driver, but didn't win all of the time.

"But then people say poker is all luck, and it's not like that at all. It's difficult to quantify it, but there is some blending between luck and skill."

With the advent of the internet, playing poker online has become increasingly popular with people from vastly different backgrounds, a development that is welcomed by Mr Brindley.

"Online gaming is good because it allows people to play poker who wouldn't normally get to play, like women, who may not feel comfortable about going into a poker club and sitting down with a table of men.

"But there's a different strategy with the online version because, for example, with a live game you can read your opponent, observe their body language, which is important. A live game does involve more skill."

'Skill element'

Scientist and "very" amateur poker player Simon Singh believes there are several factors in poker which mean that winning is down to more than just luck.

"When you look at any game there's a spectrum. A game of roulette is clearly a game of chance, whereas chess is particularly a game of skill," he said.

"In the middle you have everything else. Cricket, for example, is a game of chance to some extent.


In poker it is possible for someone to be better than someone else, because the game has got an element of skill.
Simon Singh
Amateur player

"It's influenced by who wins the toss and if the weather changes, and you can alter your strategy for that but there are certain factors you can't account for.

"If you're getting fantastic hands at poker all night because of the way the cards are being dealt then that's lucky.

"But in the long run you're all going to get pretty much similar hands. The test is - are some people better at poker than others?

"I can't be consistently better than other people at roulette because there's no way of influencing the outcome of where the ball falls on the roulette wheel.

"But in poker it is possible for someone to be better than someone else, because the game has got an element of skill."

Risks

Mr Singh says there are certain factors that elevate poker above being a mere game of good fortune and is even a useful tool for examining one's character.

"Poker is a very good way of testing how you are as a human being, because it involves a whole range of skills.

"It tests how good you are at taking risks. You have to be aggressive sometimes and back down at others, you have to work out what's in your own head, use psychology to read your opponents through their behaviour.

"It involves so many aspects and that's what says poker is not just a game of luck."
Author tincat
Forums Member
#2 - Posted: 14 Mar 2009 22:25 - Edited by: tincat
Den do you mind if i read this tomorrow? I just don't have the eyes for it right now.

Might be cos of the free vodka that LFC were handing out this afternoon - did I tell you about our little win?

Nooooo ...... not the battering of Real Madrid on Tuesday - fantastic as it was - 4-1 - I mean the hammering of Man Utd at Old Trafford?

Ok well I describe ALL the goals to you next time we chat.

By the way - Man of the Match?

I am undecided at the moment. Should it be world class Gerrard or Torres? How about Vidic?

Speak soon

Cat x x
Author GreatestPlayer
Forums Member
#3 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 07:50
too long to read, i will pass for now.
Author jayjayc
Forums Member
#4 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 09:31 - Edited by: jayjayc
I think luckiest is not to get lots of strong hands, but to get just a tiny bit better hand than your opponents at crucial moments.

In bridge the luck element is cancelled by playing the same hands more than once, and comparing only with the results obtained with the same hands by a different team.

This could be applied to team poker (especially online) by having two tables running in parallel, same card distribution, half of the team at table one, and half at tabel two, in opposite seats.
Of course special rules for (non)elimination have to apply, like rebuy possibilities until you sink your whole team or so.

Has this ever been tried?

Regards,
Jan
Author gegs12
Forums Member
#5 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 11:36
The Development of Organized Darts
In 1908 a decision was made by the Magistrates in Leeds, England which effectively ensured the eventual popularity of darts as a sport. At that time, "games of chance" were illegal in public houses (pubs). A pub owner called "Foot" Anakin was accused of operating a game of chance and prosecuted for allowing darts at his establishment. Foot argued that darts was not a game of chance, and obtained permission for a board to be set up in the courtroom. It is said that Anakin threw three darts in the 20 and invited any magistrate to do the same. The challenge was accepted, however the court officials were unable to duplicate Foot's shot, thus proving darts was indeed a game of skill and not of chance; the case was dismissed. The years afterward saw the progression of the game in British public houses; by World War II the majority of pubs had dartboards, and teams and matches with other pubs were arranged on a regular basis.

perhaps they shudda challenged the judge to a game of holdem....
Author JoeyNitro
Forums Member
#6 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 14:49
In the words of some golfer..i think "The more I play, the luckier I get..."
Author Solskjaer1611
Forums Member
#7 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 15:50
Im skillful n lucky sooo i dont know the difference :P:P
Author 1superken
Forums Member
#8 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 16:49
It was Gary Player Joey & its the more i practice the luckier i get & thats my signature on a fishing forum
Author ynot12
Forums Member
#9 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 17:49 - Edited by: ynot12
good topic den. games of skill are those whose outcomes are solely down to the player and not influenced by any other factor. Chess. darts and snooker come to mind.

backgammon, for example has elements of luck and skill, but a more skillful player will win 6-7 out of 10 games. poker's the same,,,over a number of games the better player will always have a better winning average, given a long enough period of time or hands.

luck can play a big part if you only play 1 game or 1 hand. the luck aspect diminishes the more you play. so if I played 200 games of backgammon against a lesser player I would definately win more games and the luck aspect would be eliminated...If i play 3 games i could lose 2-1 as luck is given a chance have it's effect.
Author ZakkWylde
Forums Member
#10 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 22:13 - Edited by: ZakkWylde
........
Author ZakkWylde
Forums Member
#11 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 22:15
Den do you mind if i read this tomorrow? I just don't have the eyes for it right now.
LOL
Author the1truemaster
Forums Member
#12 - Posted: 15 Mar 2009 22:18
np cya 2m or
 
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