Mods have always been elected from the players of the site that are helpful to others and obey the rules of the site and can give good reasoning in problems that occur to find the best solution on solving them.When a vote is taken on a subject all 15 mods +emil have a say and a vote on the outcome.

For those that don't know the process of picking a new mod at the moment,this is the procedure;

When a new mod is required the present mod team look through the people of the site to find a suitable candidate for the job.

There is then a list of names made up of who would be suitable for the job,

Requirements for this are on the site a lot.

Play within the rules of the site.

Never been banned or muzzled.

Helpful to all other players of the site be it new players or old.

When a short list is made up of opposable new mods the existing mods watch there players for a spell and post there views on the nominees.

There then is a secret vote on the nominees sent to emil all mods have 1 vote.

When the result of the vote is complete emil announces the name of the new mod who is then contacted and asked if they want the position

What i see in the future is that the mods could go through there procedure but before a mod is voted on that the people of the site get there say on the short list of possible mods before any vote takes place to be sure we have picked the right candidate for the job

Thanks for a breakdown of how mods are elected ... that should help people who dont know the process as it stands....

I think the process outlined to revamp mod selection is a great start in the short term... members get a say on the candidates before the election and if they have no grievance towards the candidates can have little or no arguement post election... seems a pretty fair way to go about things without total upheaval in the short term so the site running remains constant without all sorts of problems with a whole new mod team not knowing the ropes...

Would also like to point out that when we have picked a mod in the past that there is a thread to let all know who the new mod is, and the thread is always filled up with congratulations to that person which make me think we were doing a good job.

Well how you mean doesnt fit in the team?? Independat Mods with their own ideas and their to speak them out..
I think when mods have the last say, it will be the old story again...
You will just pick the one you think will probaly agree what you all want and will be at the same page as you are... And if not you can always vote her out like happend shortly ago
Wich isnt a good system to btw, well not with the way mods are selected now for the moment..

So in my opinion the picking like happend till now isnt the best way to do it.
I gues if there would be made a shortlist and members pick the new mods its more likely it all works more fair...

Ron im here to try and help the members of the poker site that use it you and your mate bat have posted 36 times in this thread and are on the poker site very minimal or not at all.For what reason should we take your point of view over the people that use the site for what it is here for TO PLAY POKER.I have no intentions of answering any more of your or bats posts as it just seams that nothing will ever please you or your mate.To all others just looks like we should leave you and bat to run it?

Any other members with constructive views of the site will all be noted and listed in next meeting for consultation.

I wonder how I reached 5M300...
I played 106 tourneys in March.


You would do me a great favor indeed.


I am happy to be classified in the non constructive members of this site.
Says it all about you woosh...

Thanks for the process outline, Woosh.

Like TheDeville, when making comments pointing to shortcomings or ideas for improvements in relation to Mod selection I acknowledge the good volunteer work that has been and is being done. However, it is my view that some new ways would save work and prevent some conflict.

The self-selection process outlined has some merit in terms of efficiency and stability; but it tends to prevent diversity and lacks any element of member participation. The absence of set terms or rotations means that even if a Mod proves to be unsuitable in terms of decisions or communication with members or becomes very inactive, she/he stays on unless voted off the island because of a direct rule violation. The fact is, some bad blood from historical situations has developed in relation to some Mods and it is detectible in tone quite often. Bat's proposal would remedy this.

In terms of diversity, for a long time at the beginning of the site, all the Mods came from European timezones resulting in certain hours where Mods were not available. This has improved but still could be better. The site has alot of eastern European players and some Asian players, but none has been asked to become a Mod, it seems. Self-appointment usually results in self-replication because of the built-in bias. (It has also resulted in some good appointments for the same reason.)

The status quo doesn't allow for members' buy-in that would legitimize the authority extended to the Mods by Emil. It also fails to give members the opportunity to contribute to the site governance.

By way of personal example of its limitations, I have been a member for more than 2 years. In this time I have met all the criteria outlined (no bans, no muzzles, helpful to other players- including saying hello to new ones, have been active in the Forum, a founding league Captain and a Committee member, and don't have any long-standing conflicts). I estimate that I am of reasonably sound mind and also live in North America (used to be under-represented on the Mod squad). But I have never been asked to join the Mods (although Hovis once aksed me if I thought I would ever be interested, making clear it wasn't an offer.)

This is not a complaint, but an observation that the system draws from within cultural and social circles. It is not fully representative, accountable, and fails to harness some willing workers.

What i see in the future is that the mods could go through there procedure but before a mod is voted on that the people of the site get there say on the short list of possible mods before any vote takes place to be sure we have picked the right candidate for the job

I see this as a step forward in giving the people a say.We cant have a site vote for a new mod with every person getting a vote would take years to do
I thought you had been asked if you were interested in helping more on the site.A mod can't come to you and offer you the position as all mods must make that decision as i posted in the text above.

As for nationality of a mod there is no rules to ban any person from being a mod, its all to do with what they can add to a team that tries its best to help all.I know some times we not get it right but we are only human

It was an offer, it had to go to a vote, if you had said yes, however you declined and this I respect, you said " I can't commit, because of other work issues" I believe your involvement with the Senate nomination was the reason friend :).

I have chosen 2 moderators in 20 months, as needed. Mainly we have chosen on time zones, especially the twilight zones, Aus and States. The other qualities woosh mentioned are a criteria we obey. To say differently is a slight on our membership.

I chose no msn buddies, but those I thought would benefit the site. To say I choose those that fit into my personal beliefs makes me angry.

Bat and Ron lay off, you are redundant to the well being of this site.

Are you kidding ?

Emil posts a thread for member to post complaints and suggestions.
I posted my suggestions, they are here :
http://www.thefreepokerroom.com/forum/1_5806_1.html#msg177868

Mods jump in the thread and get personal and woosh addresses directly to me.

Who has to lay off here ?

Maybe it's time to see that some of you are far outside your moderation duties.
In fact, you are at the opposite
and always play the inflamatory games.

You do, you have kept the pot boiling till it suits your syndicate and their personal beliefs. Its a members site not 5 people with issues.

Ironically, I would not have been able to phrase it better.

I have a suggestion..........or maybe moreso a question.

Can't we all just get along?

:-) :-0 <(*<*)> {:-I (*-*)

Yes, clearly an every-member voting system would not be achievable; but there are better ways to improve things in the medium-term than merely adding an opinion thread on nominees to the mix. What you are describing still arrives at the initial choices through the limited lenses of the current crew.

I hesitated to put my own history up as an example because I was simply trying to show that there are likely all sorts of over-looked members. The fact that there are 'no rules against' any person of any nationality from being a Mod is a far cry from making an effort to increase diversity and opportunity.

Some steps to 'move forward':

1) House cleaning - Retire Mods who are inactive on the site. Self-examine and voluntarily step aside if you are a long-serving Mod with numerous severed relationships, historical conflict, or acknowledged bias;

2) Solicit volunteers and nominations from within the Mods and membership to serve as a working group to improve the Mod system. A couple of site 'elders', whether Mods or not, with a history of wide support and little conflict, could narrow the group down to a manageable size and appropriate diversity;

3) With Emil, weed through suggestions submitted here and elsewhere about the Mod system (terms of service, member nominee process, etc.). Propose these to the membership for comment.

I have played on this site sometime now and due to illness have been off work since January so I have spent a lot of time on the site recently, not always playing but still watching what goes on and reading what happens in the forum, I have made a lot of friends on the site since I joined, but I would say not once has any MOD actually taken the time to speak with me to actually get to know me, I had a few brief encounters with Finn recently but that was born out of the Panda gate affair, it wasn't an interest shown by either of us to get to know each other, I asked Woosh a one personal question once to be told abruptly it had nothing to do with me, so how a MOD can tell if someone is suitable to be a MOD amazes me. Also the system you are using to choose future MODS is very time consuming especially if you do all that work and they then say they aren't interested. I would also be interested to know how many have been chosen by this method and aren't currently MODS.
My own choice of how things should be run is for the users of the site to vote for a a group of people to represent them (to be a rep for a term of a year) and then they will put names forward to be chosen for MODS, someone would be chosen with discussions from that group and Emil. This group called also get involved in a lot more things on how to improve the site.

One thing I think the MODS could do much better currently is manage the forum much better, to many posts in the wrong threads.

Pigster i dont remeber ever talking to you so it must have been a short convo,And if you had asked any question Pertaining to the mod forum im not at liberty to say.I try to talk to as many ppl from the site as i can i have over 300 members of the site on my msn so its not easy to get through them all.I try to listen to any complaints and resolve as best i can if not revert to the mod committee where appropriate.

Hovis.
I hope your not placing me in Bats so called syndicate? Believe it or not I have my own beliefs.

edited due to me be personal..

I appologize if I missed something while I was away. Night, you and the Chipmates have been very supportive and wonderful about the case against us and I really appreciate that! I am still very confused about how the decision was reached? Finn stepped down from making the final decision about the case and Bento admitted our case was decided without his vote. That leaves boozy and MMMX. If the mods didn't vote, that means that only 2 committee members decided on our case.



Again I appologize if I missed a response to this, but is our appeal being looked into by MMMX? Since he is the only member left to decide on this matter?

Some random thoughts and replies:

Emil, I hope that you are able to weed through this thread for actual complaints and suggestions and that its content will be considered by you. It would be easy to get the impression that some defensive explanations of the status quo are the site position. I have not found them to be compelling and trust that there is some point in making the effort to post in here in terms of the prospect for improvement.

Re: the League Committee: Nightwriter: As I said, 2 of the committees members will be returning shortly. I'm not sure what this statement is based on, there is some evidence to suggest that isn't the case. I think the suggestion to have the Captains' Committee, under either a Committee member or Hovis/Tia, take care of the backlog of issues is worth looking at.

This thread was set up by Emil to ask for complaints and suggestions. Bat in particular has posted several concrete suggestions for consideration and then some imformation posts to clarify others' posts. Although I have found some of Woosh's posts weak in argument, at least some have contributed to the discussion points...but Woosh, I don't see that you show good judgment in 1) attacking thread contributers 2) suggesting that the thread points will be considered by the Mods when the thread is meant to address Emil.

I know there is a ton of history among some of the antogonists here, but in the context of this one thread it seems inappropriate to tell anyone to 'lay off' when the posts have been on topic and addressed to Emil. Surely, some prime character traits of a 'suitable' Mod would be the ability to diffuse tension, patience, and a measure of emotional control. Of course, no one has these in unlimited supply, but good judgment would suggest you step aside or avoid certain interactions when they have run out. Contributers to the post would also show maturity by not getting into the tit-for-tat stuff.

In one post Woosh states that a Mod can't unilaterally make an offer of a Mod position and the next Hovis says an offer was made and that on two other occassion he selected Mods. I assume you mean nominated Mods, Hovis.

Everyone in positions of power bring personal values to decisions..this is a good thing. Objectivity is impossible. The safeguard needed is called democracy...a structure that introduces the broadest variety of perspectives as possible and shares both the power to make the decision and responsibility for it.

With respect, my recollection was that my discussion with Hovis was introduced as 'we aren't looking right now, but would you ever be interest?' I think my reply was something like, not now, not likely in the future, but who knows?

I specifically noted that I thought there had been some good selections even with a bad system. To recognize that there have been some poor ones and some missed good ones would simply be mature....not a 'slight' on all Mods. For example, one Mod joined the site almost a year after me. Within 3 months this person became a Mod after befriending a couple of serving Mods. This Mod probably does some good table-service (muzzles, failure to stand, etc.), but has consistently demonstrated a poor temperment for handling inter-personal communications without defensiveness or inflammatory attitude. This kind of situation could be alleviated by limited terms and a broader selection process.

I have to agree most mods do a good job on this site and from my experience you have always been accessible and helpful


No one is saying that everybody should get a vote. We could have people who put their name forward, people could then vote foe the person they wish to elect, then emil could choose from the top 5 for example.

Bats idea of a 33% mod change every 6 months is great. My own personal view is that the mods at the moment are all close, but this maybe after working so long together.


This needs to be changed

Was the demotion/stepping down of 2 mods for the lack of conformity?


Hovis i have to disagree with you m8, bat has laid down some great points for the betterment of the site. You have done a great del for this site mate but i think you are lettin things get a bit personal.


This has been what i have been complaining about for the last 2 month it seems 1 or 2 people have been put in a position to make unilateral decision, which is either never made or has taken a very long time to make. I know i would have bad quick decisive decisions for the betterment of the league and fair play.

We have 2 crazy or unfair decisions by the league commitee, and then this latest panda decision. If we had not biased mods or committee members things would be resolved for the better

Standings:

Dealers 263
Untouchables 262
Pokerpuffs 252

But without the crazy points docking:

Pokerpuffs 278
Dealers 263
Untouchables 262

2 Games left and we are waiting for the commitee to turn up. Was it only 1 member who choose to suspend CC

( for all those who wake up in sweat crying noooo! every night,
I want to put an end to your nightmares:
I am disqualified upon these requirements.... lol )

Hi all, I feel I need to add my 2 cents worth after reading the arguments / statements contained in this thread, someone mentioned (may have been Bento but not sure – forgive me if I'm wrong m8) a all member vote was out of the question? Why.

Why can't Emil start a thread asking for MOD nominations, giving the following criteria:

1) the thread will be locked in 72 hours, all votes cast after that time will be null and void;

2) One vote per member (IP checks will need to be carried out – but only on the successful candidates votes – not every single vote)

3) A vote must consist of the name of the candidate only, no explaination, no dribble just the name, any vote containing more than the name will be discarded

4) One MOD per time zone (that's 24) this will solve the dramas we in Australia have when the rest of the world is asleep and the morons rise from their graves.

5) Finally, when a MOD decision is made, all decisions/votes etc are transparent and published in the forum

6) The term of a MOD appointment is fixed (possibly 2 years) and if that MOD has don a good job he / she can be reelected (if they choose to stand) ans the members can vote.

Just my thoughts, this way no-one can complain EVER AGAIN about what MODs do and don't do.

Interesting, G50. Anything that increases participation and works toward consensus would be welcomed. I think the length of term you mentioned is too long, though. I do think that in an election, several current Mods would be voted back in.

Very frustrated trying to get assistance with my problem.
I was able to login and play using the user name lester51 password ****.
This username and password work for posting on forum.
It does not make sense to me.
I realize you have fisherman 808 password ****.
This was an old username and password.
Have played using lester51 password **** for about 3 yrs now.
Very disappointed !

Thanks Mod Tiandra for at least answering me.

edit : swampy....sorry Les, but you really don't want people knowing your passwords m8. =)

true but the great idea to live in a prison colony of the british empire...
you can only blame yourself here...

I don't think there is a better place in the world to live, but I am biased.


How true