Hi

Sorry but despite the previous threat being closed it is important to clear some points raised by few people specially Cmwonka ..refrence to this thread http://www.thefreepokerroom.com/forum/1_6534_1.html)
. but before going ahead it is important to let u guys know that I am a Muslim (so that u could wiegh subjectivity in my comment if u find any).
The basic idea is that everyone has different perception of any given suitation and which means everyone's opinion would differ ...what people perceives depends on the following factors religion law, enviroment in which they r being brought up, their sense of understanding and the imformation they has regarding that suitation (this point also has the mojor role to play in deciding whether their perception is right or not),

whether u r religious or not it dosent matter but u need to have correct sense and full knowledge and information before u comment on any suitation now let see where u went wrong wonka

CMwonka

respect....?
Some moron straps a bomb to his waist then blows woman and children up in the name of religion and then you want people to respect their beliefs...?

here u need just a common sense to see that blaming the entire muslim community just coz few people are using the name of Islam ( the more sensible and literate person would say they arent human but evil ). i can tell u that there is nothing said by our religion to kill innocent people infact suicide is seen as the biggest sin according to our belief, the poeple who r doing this just taking advantage of verses and twisting it accordingly so to serve their own pupose and enjoyment of killing people.
and it is people like u who dont see the difference between good and evil encourages those poeple to divide global society {on religious ground in this case this work as an incentive for those terrorist organisation} ( i wont blame u coz u lack common sense and despite of being in a good enviroment u cant sense it rightly. it is more unfortunate that people having the oppurtunity to born in a good enviroment (like wonka) speak foolish than those who didnt get the chance to see or to develop their sense between right and wrong. U say ther r muslim ok let me put it this way send a new born baby from any country other than muslim and leave him to this organisation after few years when he ll do his job then i ll ask u whether he is a muslim evil child or an unfortunate child didnt get the right learning to figure and sense right and wrong . Its underage people who r being used for this purpose mostly 12 to 20 years of age. U believe these people r muslim just coz they recite kalma before being blown up . I am from pakistan everyday these bombars r attacking Mosque, religious processions, markets and many more places. According to u if they r muslim then why they r killing muslims here , no they r not they r evil and pakistani people are paying cost of human life coz they r fighting against them , ( Cant u just use ur comman sense to see the difference ).
I personally beleive in humanity and i think there r two kind of people in this world either good or evil. i donot differentiate them on the ground of religion, country . I am blessed with mind and good education which allows me to see things and understand them with the lowest possible flaws.

the Only Bad thing is if others r not safe from ur existance and when people inflict harms to others which basically they dont have the right ( unless being considered all the facts and figure and if he deserve to be punished for harming other people is not wrong instead its justice) . Regardless of the religion and belief protecting the rights of humaity should always be the common factor in determining right and wrong.

CMwonka

[b]Obama says, ''this man is a threat to america, its is a recruitment bonanza in Afghanistan and america, this will put many life's in danger''

Interpoll says, ''terrorist threats will go up if this burning goes ahead''

Pakistan says, '' world peace will be threatened ''

dove church says ''we have hundreds of death threats so far ''
WOOOOOW all over a stupid little book

i think all these people are acting practically coz they r aware that this act might be taken advantage of by the terrorist group who only seek excuses to go ahead with thier malicious intend to harm the humanity in the name of religion. And this would be taught as an additional subject with an intent to promote hate in the terrorist training camps

CMwonka

[b]I dont believe in god, i dont need direction from a book so therefore i think its stupid.
secondly i also think the bible is a stupid little book too

Because few misinterpret the book u cannot blame the book and its teaching.And for those who have faith in this Book and interpret it in a right way and its a sacred book for them atleast their sentiments and belief deserve respect. I am being taught to respect other people's belief even though if i dont agree to it. Because being tolerant of other people belief is the key to promote harmony especially now when the world has become global village. The word stupid is an unnecessary word to use here this reveals low level of thinking and negativity, in ur personality and that is indeed not a sign of an ethically desireable human being.



English isnt my first language so excuse any grammatical and spelling errors

I agree with willy. I also think the books are stupid...I hope you will be tolerant of our beliefs too, and not be disparaging as you have been in your last sentence. After all, it hardly promotes harmony.

did i say anywhere that entire country from where cmwonka belongs r ethically undesireable human being ?


theres a difference ...i am expressing my views for an individual (cmwonka) it is is far more realistic to comment on individual than to state comment for entire community just coz few r bads .

make sense?

I read this entire post, and I do thank you for bringing your take on what is currently going on -because it's easy to put everything in one basket; people and views alike.

Religion is a very tricky subject...sad that it always gets so heated and personalized. Alas, religion is the very definition of something personal.

It's not the first time a belief was twisted to fit an evil agenda, and it won't be the last. Taking something somebody has faith in; is the easiest way to produce corruption from the very people who do not understand that they are being used as a tool, mostly due to fear of angering their chosen G-D.

Swooping all people up into a basket of hate, is a very hard place to be...if you get tossed in the basket, too...just for being within a particular sector in this World.

------
ETA:
Meanwhile, Regis was right, and this will get locked up too, if people continue to attack..in lieu of simply relaying their opinions in a courteous manner. Personally, I believe all opinions get you closer to further understanding.

That's a good thing.

Personal religion, be it a belief in natural things, or in a supreme being of whatever imagining, the basic humanity of the majority of ther humans on this small earth is without question.

What dismays me is the large, or relatively large number of humans who perform eviil and anti-humanitarian acts in the name of some of these named 'supreme' beings, (commonly called 'God'). Organized religion, in my belief, by it's very nature is susceptible to becoming corrupted by a few egotistical and power hungry individuals. This applies to ALL organized religions.

So, to those of you who hold personal beliefs of whatever kind that are essentially those of kindness and good treatment of their fellow inhabitants of this planet, best wishes to you, but please, do not follow blindly those leaders of religions who call for any act that hurts or oppresses other humans. This is not relgion, it is egotistical madness.

as usual, the prophecy was right...

Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation.

Assalamu Alaikum

Hello dangrila,

There is a few points i would like to discuss with you.


You say..

''u need to have correct sense and full knowledge and information before u comment on any suitation now let see where u went wrong wonka''

These are my opinions friend, but you say they are wrong.? Are they wrong because my beliefs are not classed as main stream, does that make it wrong?
I also think you may have misinterpreted the whole thread, yes the original question was ''is the pastor right in the burning of the koran'' but if you read on i also state that all religious books should be burned.



You say.

'' and it is people like u who dont see the difference between good and evil encourages those poeple to divide global society''

Why because i have an opinion that goes against your beliefs, is that not classed as a contradiction in terms ?
Also so i NEVER once blamed every muslim for the atrocities caused by a few mindless radical inbreeds.



You say

'' it is more unfortunate that people having the oppurtunity to born in a good enviroment (like wonka) speak foolish than those who didnt get the chance to see or to develop their sense between right and wrong.''

Please friend yes where i live may be well developed to your country but we don't live in paradise, there is as much wrong doing in my country than yours, maybe you should have a correct sense and full knowledge and information before u comment...?



Your finale statement,

''And for those who have faith in this Book and interpret it in a right way and its a sacred book for them atleast their sentiments and belief deserve respect.''

NO i will not respect your so called sacred book nor will i respect the people that are so weak minded that need to believe , but dont think im having a pop at muslims i will never respect any so called sacred book nor religion.
But i do respect your opinions if only you would respect mine with out the insults.

Willy wonka ( jedi)

I thought about strapping a virus to this comment and yelling at the top of my lungs

"There are no 7 2 off suit hands in heaven"

But decided that wouldnt do anyone much good so i thought better of the ideal.

I recently watch am HBO documentary called My Trip to Al-Qaeda, i found it very informing and it show,s just how much wrong is being done on both sides.
My grandfather always told me , never discuss politics or religion , because one persons saint is another persons Satan.

very good advice.


||||:-)

So why would anyone on here respect your opinions, if you cant respect their beliefs. You have to relazie that since you dont believe in god, you come across as overly biase. You are also contradicting yourself. To say that everyone who has a religion are weak minded, is beyond reasoning with. Not believing in god is a blief in it self, I am not calling you weak minded, arrogant heathen or anybody else on here for choicing not to belieive.

Foolme,

''i was expressing my views for an individual (dangrila) it is is far more realistic to comment to an individual''.


Also i dont want to be reasoned with friend, thats what i feel and always will.

But one question why do some people feel the need to believe in something or someone that does not exist.....?
personally i would say they are weak.

I agree with you dan 100%. I have many Muslims friends that I went to college with and did business with. I too used to have bad misunderstanding about Islam till I educated my self about it after 9/11. After studying the principles and the fundamentals of Islam I come to a conclusion that not so many differences between the great religions the "Ibrahmics religions" Christianity, Judaism and Islam. As a matter of fact Islam includes in their teaching what Judaism and Christianity teaches and add to it some aspect of life issues.
I followed the show this idiot Jones put through the media after he got his 15 minutes of fame. The only reason he changed his mind about burning the Koran not because he loves Muslims it is because of a visit to him by the FBI and the IRS. News media report he was using the church as a business establishment. Just stay tuned because he might end up in jail soon. As my Muslim friends always say GOD is great.

You say that i should respect all beliefs ....



Canada.
The Sons of Freedom, a sect of Doukhobor anarchists, have protested nude, blown up power pylons, railroad bridges, and set fire to homes, often targeting their own property

India
The National Liberation Front of Tripura, a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity

Romania
Anti-Semitic Romanian Orthodox fascist movements in Romania, such as the Iron Guard and Lăncieri, were responsible for involvement in the Holocaust, Bucharest pogrom, and political murders during the 1930s


Russia
A number of Russian political and paramilitary groups combine racism, nationalism, and Russian Orthodox beliefs.Russian National Unity, a far right ultra-nationalist political party and paramilitary organization, advocates an increased role for the Russian Orthodox Church according to its manifesto. It has been accused of murders, and several terrorist attacks including the bombing of the US Consulate in Ekaterinburg


Uganda
The Lord's Resistance Army, a cult guerrilla army engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government, has been accused of using child soldiers and committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, porters and sex slaves.It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Christian Holy Spirit which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations

United States
white supremacist Ku Klux Klan members in the Southern United States engaged in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics and other social or ethnic minorities.
A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven''.


Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Toiba
Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Taiba is a terrorist group that seeks the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir's accession to Pakistan. It has committed mass terrorist actions against Indian troops and civilians Indians


Afghanistan
Main articles: Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin
In Afghanistan, Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin forces, are reported to have "sharply escalated bombing and other attacks in 2006 and early 2007" against civilians. During 2006 "at least 669 Afghan civilians were killed in at least 350 armed attacks, most of which appear to have been intentionally launched at civilians or civilian objects. An additional 52 civilians were killed in insurgent attacks in the first two months of 2007."


Al-Qaeda
Al-Qaeda is a worldwide pan-Islamic terrorist network headed by Osama bin Laden now operating in more than 60 countries. Its stated aim is the use of jihad to defend Islam against Zionism, Christianity, Hinduism, the secular West, and Muslim governments such as Saudi Arabia, which it sees as insufficiently Islamic and too closely tied to America.

Formed by bin Laden and Muhammad Atef in the aftermath of the Soviet war in Afghanistan in the late 1980s, Al Qaeda called for the use of violence against civilians and military of the United States and any countries that are allied with it. Since its formation Al Qaeda has committed a number of terrorist acts in Africa, the Middle East, Europe, and Asia. Although once supported by the Taliban organization in Afghanistan, the U.S. and British governments never considered the Taliban to have been a terrorist organization.

Specially some events such as Twin Towers bombing in 1993, the 9/11 event and further much more events. Muslim popular opinion on the subject of attacks on civilians by Islamist groups varies, but most Muslims living in the West and most Muslim governments denounced the September 11th attacks on the US.


Do you STILL respect there beliefs...?
DO YOU STILL THINK GOD IS GREAT...?
DO YOU still respect every faith...?
SHALL I GO ON....?

Lefthandwoman made a very good comment last night. She said Seph, every religion has it's effed up verses
It's silly to cherry pick the ones that look intolerant and leave all the rest. Put some balance on those scales.

The point is nothing is perfect and if picked out the worst traits out of everyone on the site, everyone would hate everyone.

Hang on, its been stated that all beliefs should be respected...

So because the bible,koran or what ever other religious scripts get interpreted in a different way to some one else's interpretation, Then they are wrong...?

Tell me who is right...?

You see my friend, religion is one big screw up.

Thats all im saying on the subject.

WW

Like I said before: You know I love your chocolaty goodness, but it's the same thing over and over...you have a fixed idea about some controversial issue, then you pretend to "ask" a question about it.
Next time just call it what it is...a Wonka right wing rant (has a nice ring to it)


I personally would say that a person with sense (practicing athiest or not) would understand why people believe, even if they themselves did not.
It's not hard to imagine the peace of mind a solid belief in a higher being would bring. The feeling of togetherness, tranquility and joy that comes from singing with people and holding their hands is not hard to grasp. I accecept people's prayers lovingly, because it's an act of compassion that touches my heart (though I am a non-practicing athiest myself).
Weak people are everywhere. Fox news makes that all to clear. They don't need religion to be strenght-challenged...they can get there all on their own.

ok, may I ask what is the difference between a practising atheist and a non-practising atheist?

Brother Willy,

The organizations you talk about are to be classified as extremist groups, which have embraced a very intolerant form of their respective faiths and are often violent and hate filled in the way they operate.

None of that renders the question of faith thereby doomed or ill advised undertaking. People will seek solace in wisdom when life throws matters at them. Some find the concept of God to be the most suited upon which to build their beliefs and mores. Think of it as the foundation. Others will build their foundation on something different; yet I think it all comes down to the part that wisdom is required to navigate life.

Nomenclature is often used to separate matters that in the end have as much in common as they have differences. Poor way of communicating is not the smallest of evils in that regard.

I still fail to see what your point really is Willy... should we all start burning all books and chant: down with humanity? -- If the booze is free I'll chant for a couple of beers, but otherwise the topic seems to me pretty sad as I pointed out in the 1st post.

Jyri/FF

I guess a practising one would protest with signs like dont teach relgion in school, stuff like that .Though really there is not really a big difference.

What happens if I burn a copy of the Koran onto a CDROM?

What happens if I put the .pdf file into the desktop trash can?

knucks

A practicing atheist tends to go on and on about how dumb religion is.



lol

Actually, it does matter....a lot!

I've stayed out of this coz i'm a mere newb...no ok, its actually coz i'm a secret Bible-basher and I cud go on and on allll day defending the big fella upstairs...but!....one thing I have to say is, this 'pastor' is supposed to be a Christian Minister, yes? So where is his forgiveness? where is his 'turning of his other cheek'? One of the main legislations of Christianity is forgiveness...no matter who planned any attack on whatever country, this pastor, as a MAN OF THE CLOTH, has no right whatsoeverrrrr to condone any act of vengeance, or instill any act of retribution...not in my religion's name! ...as an everyday man ok, go out and burn whatever books you want, be an extremist if you have the guts, but when you're preaching people MY faith, when you advertise the fact that you represent a religion, then abide by the rules of that religion. No true 'follower of Christ' would behave in such ways...and at the end of the day methinks this Christian Minister has forgotten that the man he chooses to follow, namely Jesus Christ, was a Middle Eastern Jew!!! sorry...but this 'pastor' is nothing but a hypocrite!!

Dangrila has posted in defence of his faith, and I say good on the lad.
This 'pastor' should be stripped of his parish and never be allowed to preach again.
He obviously has far too much hate in his heart...

Sermon over :P

I liked it, pass the collection plate

A terrorist organisation is just that, nothiing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter what race or religion they are. They can say they are killing in the name of their god all they like, but in the end they are just plain murderers be they Islamic, Christian, Jew or whatever. There are radicals in every religion around the world, not just muslim. Some use bombs and guns, some self immolate and others come knocking on your door.
Should this pastor burn the Koran, absolutely NOT. (yes I know he is now not doing it) People should show tolerence and respect for others beliefs as long as they are not harming others or themselves.
Faith is what gets people through times of illness and grief and if that makes them happy and helps then find peace then all I can say is "good for them".

by whom ?
his congregation is non-denominational.

by whichever idiot ordained him as a pastor in the first place...

but ok, seeing as he has no parish (which makes him all the more unappealing) i'll rephrase my comment:

this man should be stripped naked and hung upside down in the middle of a bee colony and all the kids can stand behind the hedge and throw eggs at him...

I searched but it looks like he was self-ordained.


looks more reminiscent of the old testament than the gospel...

you are kidding, right? so he's just a loonie then? how can u be a self-ordained minister? is that allowed? so someone who knows nothing at all about a religion can just go ahead and do that? seriously? and people listen to these ministers?? oh nowwww i know why the world is such a wonderful place..... :O


and yeah, it was supposed to :P

I am the Batman.


Easy, the procedure is quite simple and well established.
You just go to the top of a mountain, offer your first born in sacrifice,
and you get a standard covenant.


The first amendment might cover this question but i am not a constitutionalist.

Food for thoughts. I just learned few things from one of my friends:

1. Do you know that Jesus and Moses were mentioned in the Koran tens of times more than any other prophet including the Muslims own prophet Mohammad?
2. Moses was mentioned in the Koran 89 times.
3. What is so funny in the Muslim's religion the proper way of disposing of the Koran is by burning it.